{ "numMessagesInTopic": 8, "nextInTime": 1940, "senderId": "kp2yhEATGFXx_X-t_cQ6jYlDnb8CWn1SFimSlyowYlvigPbJRmKk0fPXx0BJyUnfQjYRmtjBvMSK-epshHM_KHiUo3ktl6wylMLyKX5w9Q", "systemMessage": false, "subject": "Re: T221 (series 3) and a new computer?", "from": ""fluppeteer" <yahoo@...>", "authorName": "fluppeteer", "msgSnippet": "Hi Vonbugburg, ... I see my reputation for talking too much preceeds me. ;-) What *I* would buy is an 8800GTX, and report to everyone whether it would work.", "msgId": 1939, "profile": "fluppeteer", "topicId": 1935, "spamInfo": { "reason": "0", "isSpam": false }, "replyTo": "LIST", "userId": 192443393, "messageBody": "
--- In IBM_T2X_LCD@yahoogroups.com, "vonbugburg" <alwilker@...> wrote:
\n>
\n> I have a DG3 and a (older) Dell 670 with a Nvidia FX 3400. I design
\n> with SolidWorks (CAD programs) most of the time (sometimes Pro E) at
\n> 1920 X 1200. Ok, for you all of you guys (Fluppeteer, go for it), if
\n> one was going to buy a new computer and/or video card, no holds, go for
\n> it, what would it be??? Let's say that I want to get the most out of
\n> the DG3, and want something "turn key" so that I so not have to do all
\n> the great and fancy stuff you guys do to max out the monitor. IE, buy
\n> the hardware and hook it up. I am a CAD guy, not a computer wiz!
\n> Thank for the help and it's great reading your messages.
\n>
\n> Vonbugburg
\n
\nI see my reputation for talking too much preceeds me. ;-)
\n
\nWhat *I* would buy is an 8800GTX, and report to everyone whether
\nit would work. However, that's probably not what *you* should buy,
\nbecause I don't run the same apps as you...
\n
\nThe question is going to be: do SolidWorks and ProE work with
\nnVidia's SLI multi-head (Quadro) support? They're very well
\nknown applications (part of Viewperf), so arguably if anything
\nwill work then *they* will, but on the other hand they might
\nbe so loaded up with specific acceleration features that this
\nbreaks SLI multiview. I will say this: you *do* want a workstation
\ncard (Quadro FX/FireGL/[at a push] Realizm); there are driver
\noptimizations that make a massive performance difference, at
\nleast under XP (Vista may get in the way of some). It would be
\nless of an issue with other apps, but for something that's part
\nof Viewperf, there's no debate.
\n
\nThe reason I ask: A Quadro FX4500X2 supports four outputs
\n(each dual link, although that doesn't matter in this case),
\nbut it's effectively two cards. I suspect - never having tried
\nsuch a card - that you'll need SLI multiview enabled to get
\nit to act as a single large desktop. Try to borrow one - it's
\na very expensive experiment to try. You might have some luck
\nstarting a conversation with an nVidia dealer along the lines
\nof "I'd like to buy one of the most expensive cards that you've
\ngot, but I need to know this first..."
\n
\n*If* the FX4500X2 works okay quad head with your apps (it might;
\nfor the record it *won't* work so well under DirectX games and
\nso on, so the 4500X2 isn't everyone's best solution) then it's
\nprobably your best choice. It should give you 41Hz and the
\nfastest rendering you'll get for a while.
\n
\nIf it doesn't work, if you want the desktop to look right,
\nyou'll be stuck with two heads. In this case, steer clear of
\nthe FX4500X2 (I suspect you'll either run with one card disabled
\nor only one head in "SLI"). Go for a single card with a lot of
\nfill rate (depending on how much geometry you usually use - a
\nT221 takes a lot of pixels, but the apps you use tend to be
\ngeometry limited); an FX3500 may do better than you'd expect
\nfor its price point. If you can wait a few months, I'm sure a
\nG80-based workstation card will appear (probably a Quadro FX6500)
\nand this may push the prices down on everything else. You may
\nhave more luck pushing the monitor refresh rate from FireGL cards
\nthan Quadros, historically. The "safe" solution for full refresh
\nis to try to get a DG5. :-)
\n
\nBear in mind that rendering a T221's worth of screen in hard
\nwork for any graphics card, and that the panel doesn't have the
\nfastest response (Steve gave details in a very early post of
\nwhat exactly is slow about it, and I'll get yelled at if I claim
\nit's ghosting or something, but basically don't expect pin sharp
\nfast movement). If you can try it at 1920x1200 you'll get the
\neffect. Point being, trying to get 41Hz at the cost of decent
\nrendering performance may not be worthwhile, especially if you
\ncan get over 30Hz for much less money. I do see the judder at
\n25Hz, admittedly, but others have had more time to experiment
\n(I'm waiting for my 8800).
\n
\nThis all assumes a single graphics card (ish, in the case of
\nthe 4500X2). If SLI multiview works well enough, you might have
\nsome luck with multiple Quadros. I don't recall whether two
\nFX4500X2s work, but something like two FX5500s might, and would
\nin theory be faster than a single 4500X2. And two FX6500s, when
\nthey exist, might well be faster than two FX4500X2s (and let you
\nturn off your room heater).
\n
\nWorkstation apps tend to throw a lot of data over the PCI-e bus,
\nso if you're considering SLI, aim for a board with two genuine
\n16-lane slots. I'm less sure how much of an effect the CPU will
\nhave - in theory I don't really see it doing much in most CAD
\napps, but I've never really experimented to find out; I'm sure
\nthere are benchmarks on-line (try www.3dprofessor.com, although
\ntheir site seems unwell at the moment). In principle, it's
\nprobably a good thing to have a lot of RAM bandwidth, if that
\nhelps.
\n
\nI'm talking about the Quadro solutions because I'm slightly
\nmore familiar with them (I run Linux sometimes, although I've
\nnot had the chance to reinstall on my T221 box, and because
\nthe nVidia Linux support has historically been better I tend
\nnot to keep such a close eye on ATi's solutions). I'm not
\naware of a FireGL equivalent of SLI MultiView, but it may
\nexist.
\n
\nPlease double-check what I'm suggesting; I've never even seen
\nan FX4500X2, nor had the chance to try SLI MultiView, so I may
\nhave the wrong end of the stick. It'd be a very expensive thing
\nto get wrong on my say-so.
\n
\nIn spite of not saying anything definitive (other than giving
\nyou some experiments to perform), I hope that helps! Let us
\nknow what works, and welcome to the group.
\n
\n--
\nFluppeteer