{ "numMessagesInTopic": 38, "nextInTime": 2090, "senderId": "D-M2gSNwZfkn3M9JOwGxjF7VMr0n9E8K3fQDkuXGvr1KVMgQI5a_HK1EA01Oc_MS5016lTTBnvf6uvz06FdPYcxZ4V3MCnwaAfSLFKDg", "systemMessage": false, "subject": "RE: [IBM_T2X_LCD] Re: Know of a T221 for view in Manhattan?", "from": ""Al Daya" <dayadevelopment@...>", "authorName": "Al Daya", "msgSnippet": "I see your point. I think 2k is a good price for a DG5 but 3k? You could have picked up two VP2290B s for less than one DG5 and had a dual monitor setup.. I", "msgId": 2089, "profile": "dayadevelopment", "topicId": 2046, "spamInfo": { "reason": "0", "isSpam": false }, "replyTo": "LIST", "userId": 293505194, "messageBody": "
I see your point. I think 2k is a good\nprice for a DG5 but 3k?
\n\n\n\n
You could have picked up two VP2290B’s for\nless than one DG5 and had a dual monitor setup….
\n\n\n\n
I would never buy a monitor with a blemish\nto begin with.
\n\n\n\n
I have seen the NVS 440 go for 150-300 on\nebay which is a normal range.
\n\n\n\n
DG5’s are only coming with 1 year warranty\nat this point.
\n\n\n\n
Would you spend 3500 for a DG5?
\n\n\n\n
From:\n IBM_T2X_LCD@yahoogroups.com [mailto:\n IBM_T2X_LCD@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Peter Booth
\nSent: Thursday, January 04, 2007\n6:12 PM
\nTo: IBM_T2X_LCD@yahoogroups.com
\nSubject: Re: [IBM_T2X_LCD] Re:\nKnow of a T221 for view in Manhattan ?
\n\n
I bought\na VP2290B for $875 a few months ago. If I could have bought a new DG5 for $2500\nI'd have done that in a heartbeat.
\n\n\n\n
Why?
\n\n\n\n
The VP2290B is out of warranty and has a minor visual blemish. To drive\nit at full res I need four x DVI in which in effect means a $500 NVS 440\nor two graphics cards (Quadras if I want to avoid tearing). I use Mac at\nhome. It isn't clear toi me that there is *any* configuration of Mac Pro that\nwill run my VP2290B with full res without tearing.
\n\n\n\n
With a DG5 I need two x dual link DVI. I can get this with a\nsingle ATI\nRadeon X1900 XT in the Mac Pro, or with a bucketload of cards on a PC.
\n\n\n\n
I have two SGI 1600SW monitors that taught me all I want to know about\nthe frustrations of unsupported technology choices.
\n\n\n\n
new DG5 = warranty, visuallly perfect, can be driven by many computer\nsetups
\n\nVP2290B = no warranty, visual blemish, very painful almost impossible\nto drive at full res
\n\n\n\n
I think $2500 is cheap for a DG5.
\n\n\n\n
Peter
\n\n\n\n
\n\n
\n\n
\n\n
\n\n
On Jan 4, 2007, at 7:57 PM, Al Daya wrote:
\n\n
\n
\n
\n\n
\n\n
What most people don’t\nacknowledge is that the VP2290B is the exact same monitor as the IBM T221.
\n\n\n\n
In fact, they were both\nmanufactured by IDTECH in\n Japan . \nViewsonic and IBM put their individual labels on these units and then\ndistributed them.
\n\n\n\n
The VP2290B is capable of\nproducing awesome video at 41hz just as the T221 DG5. The DG5 only allows\nfor 7hz more and the capability of using a different video card.
\n\n\n\n
But at what price! I\nagree with a lot of the other forum members that if you can get a hold of a\nVP2290B in the $1000 to $2000 range than you should go with that and buy two of\nthem instead of wasting your money on an outdated DG5!!!
\n\n\n\n
I bought several VP2290B’s\non Ebay recently with no flaws and they work great with my Nvidia FX3000!!!
\n\n\n\n
I have no problems\nand no dead pixels and they were professionally packaged.
\n\n\n\n
Why not save an extra\n$2500 and put that in the bank rather than spend that on an outdated T221 DG5\nwhich are out of production now and out of warranty in a year!!!
\n\n\n\n
From:\n IBM_T2X_LCD@ yahoogroups.\n com [mailto:\n IBM_T2X_LCD@ yahoogroups.\n com ]On Behalf Of David Evans
\nSent:\nThursday, January 04, 2007 12:16 PM
\nTo:\n IBM_T2X_LCD@ yahoogroups.\n com
\nSubject:\nRe: [IBM_T2X_LCD] Re: Know of a T221 for view in\n Manhattan ?
\n\n
Sigh...
\n
\nThe price for any product is whatever a willing\nbuyer and willing seller agree upon.
\n
\nWhat you, or I, feel it is worth to us does not\nmatter. Historical prices of a year ago don't really matter when a\nproduct is no longer available from the manufacturer. In general, when\nsuch happens with a product that still has a demand, prices tend to rise as demand\noutstrips a limited supply. The T221 does, in all versions, still have a\ndemand.
\n
\nNovoventus has been selling DG5s on eBay since, at\nleast, the beginning of December 2006 with listing prices generally in the\n$4,500 range. They have accepted, at least, 5 offers, and declined\nmany more. There was one different person selling a DG5 in\nNovember. That person had also attempted to sell one earlier in the year.\nHe was briefly discussed on the group at that time.
\n
\nNovoventus has been quite responsible in how they\nhave presented to this group that they are selling some DG5's. They sent\nout one, and only one, message mentioning the availability of them on eBay and\nthat they were willing to answer any questions. Given that people on this\nlist are specifically interested in these monitors it is actually desirable to\nhave their availability mentioned so that those that desire them can get more\ninformation.
\n
\nGiven that a price was mentioned, $2,600, that was\nwell bellow the demonstrated market price, it was quite reasonable for\nNovoventus to state that they, the only source they are aware of, were not\nwilling to sell at that price. In fact that they were actually willing to\nbuy at that price, even offering a finder's fee to someone who could direct\nthem to anyone selling new DG5's at that price in quantity.
\n
\nAs to DG3's/VP2290b' s (DG4's):
\nThere have been many VP2290b's sold on eBay over\nthe last several months. Most of these have had visual defects to varying\ndegrees.
\n
\nAs for purchasing on eBay: You should make\nsure that it is from a reputable seller and that you pay in a manner that\nprovides you some recourse. T221's, as high value items, are often used\nin various eBay fraud schemes. These are, usually, removed from the site\nby eBay prior to the completion of the auction. As I have stated\npreviously, my personal experience in purchasing a DG3 on eBay was that the\nfirst one had to be returned due to visual defects caused by inappropriate, non\noriginal, packaging. Pictures of the defects are in the group's picture\narea. I did, eventually, get a refund. The second one was in\nperfect condition, in the original packaging. I am still using that one\ntoday.
\n
\nThis list does not need an ongoing discussion of\nthe price we each think should be paid for a T221. On the other hand,\ngiven the focus of the list, it does not seem unreasonable for someone to\nmention that they are either looking for one or have one, or more, available.\nHowever, actual negotiations should not be sent to the group. If you have\nhad a negative, or positive experience with a buyer or seller then it is\nreasonable to report that to the group as well. My personal opinion on\nwhat is appropriate to send to the group may change if there is a large volume\nof messages regarding sales.
\n
\nDave
\n
\n
\nAl Daya wrote:
\n\n\n\n\n\nHello Everyone,
\n\n\n\n
The price on a new DG5 a\nyear and a half ago was $3000 online so I would say that they are worth $2000\nnew at the most…… don’t waste your money!
\n\n\n\n
The vp2290bs’s are\ndefinitely the way to go as they can also give 24fps and have a refresh rate of\n41hz ideal for video and stills.
\n\n\n\n
LCD’s are known to last\nfor more than 15-20 years so I don’t forsee that the vp2290b’s are going to be\ndefunct anytime soon.
\n\n\n\n
The vp2290b’s are exactly\nthe same as the T221… there is absolutely no difference…..
\n\n\n\n
I am happy with my Quad\nvp2290b setup… paid less for them than 1 new DG5!!!
\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n
\n\nFrom:\n IBM_T2X_LCD@ yahoogroups.\n com [mailto:\n IBM_T2X_LCD@ yahoogroups.\n com ]\nOn Behalf Of Carlos de la Puente
\n\n
\nSent:\nThursday, January 04, 2007 8:52 AM
\nTo:\n IBM_T2X_LCD@ yahoogroups.\n com
\nSubject:\n[IBM_T2X_LCD] Re: Know of a T221 for view in\n Manhattan ?\n\n
\n\n\n\n\n\nThe\ndifference is much greater than $100. There are new DG5's
\navailable (not "supposedly"\n ), but none\nfor $2,600; not even close.
\n
\nA vp2290b would not do the job for those who need\n48Hz vertical
\nrefresh rate. Then there's also the question of\nhow much longer a
\n2002 vintage vp2290b will last.
\n
\nFor those who need WQUXGA and 48Hz, the DG5 is\nworth every penny.
\nThere isn't anything else available, and there\nwon't be anything like
\nit in the foreseeable future.
\n
\nCP
\n
\n--- In IBM_T2X_LCD@\nyahoogroups. com, Sandon Van Ness<sandon@...>
\nwrote:
\n>
\n> The difference is $2500 for a DG3 or $2600\nfor a supposedly new DG-
\n5. I
\n> personally don't see a new display, DG-5 or\nwhat not being worth
\nthat
\n> much. I think its just better going with a\nVP2290b or something for
\n> $1000, they are more common as well.
\n>
\n> Al Wilker wrote:
\n> >
\n> > Maybe we could all pool some money and\ncome up with the $100
\n> > difference and shut these guys up!
\n> >
\n> > ----- Original Message -----
\n> > *From:* Paul Grace <mailto:paulgrace@\n...>
\n> > *To:* IBM_T2X_LCD@\nyahoogroups. com
\n> > <mailto:IBM_T2X_LCD@\nyahoogroups. com>
\n> > *Sent:* Wednesday, January 03, 2007 5:24\nPM
\n> > *Subject:* RE: [IBM_T2X_LCD] Re: Know of\na T221 for view in
\n\nManhattan?
\n> >
\n> > Please take this endless chatting off\nthe discussion board.
\nJeez.
\n> >
\n> > ------------ ---------\n ---------\n ---------\n ---------\n ---------\n -
\n----------
\n> > *From:* IBM_T2X_LCD@\nyahoogroups. com
\n> > <mailto:IBM_T2X_LCD@\nyahoogroups. com>
\n> > [mailto:IBM_T2X_LCD@\nyahoogroups. com] *On Behalf Of *Novoventus
\n> > *Sent:* Wednesday, January 03, 2007\n14:06
\n> > *To:* IBM_T2X_LCD@\nyahoogroups. com
\n<mailto:IBM_T2X_LCD@\nyahoogroups. com>
\n> > *Subject:* [IBM_T2X_LCD] Re: Know of a\nT221 for view in
\n\nManhattan?
\n> >
\n> > I'll tell you what;
(Message over 64 KB, truncated)